Labor to fight cashless debit card in Senate, as concerns of national roll out grow

Linda Burney on Sky News First Edition with Peter Stefanovic - Tuesday, 8 December 2020

PETER STEFANOVIC, HOST: We are joined by Linda Burney, the Shadow Minister for Families and Social Services. Linda, good to see you. Thanks for joining us this morning.

LINDA BURNEY: Good morning.

STEFANOVIC: So, you missed out on that House vote yesterday. How confident are you that the cashless card will be stopped in the Senate?

BURNEY: Well good morning Peter, and good morning everybody. The Senate will vote on the cashless debit card this morning or this evening most probably. But certainly today. It rests really on one vote. And that's the vote of Rex Patrick, who says that he has not made up his mind, that he still has a number of questions, as I understand it. And I have to say on your program this morning, that I am not sure how Mr Patrick will vote. I will say though, that he's taken the time to go and talk to people. He's been to the Northern Territory, and he's also been to Ceduna in South Australia. This card is punitive. People don't want it. And it is absolutely a decision that the government has taken without any evidence. And I think that's really key. Without evidence, the government has decided they're going to go on this mad romp. And the question really is, and I'll put this in front of you - the question really is, is this a precursor to a national rollout of welfare, mandatory welfare management for people who are in receipt of essential security payment?

STEFANOVIC: What do you get the feeling that it is that that cashless debit card will be expanded?

BURNEY: I get the feeling that – well, I don't get the feeling - the government has actually said that they would like to have a discussion about a national rollout. So, what does that mean for the rest of the country? I know, as well as everybody else, that mandatory income management has been a failure in other countries. And it's been a failure in this country. Labor's position is extraordinarily clear, Peter. And that is if people want to volunteer to go on the card, then that's their decision. It’s the mandatory nature of this, that is really problematic.

STEFANOVIC: It's a divisive one, this one, and the vote certainly shows that one right down the middle, just about. But a recent inquiry from the government found that there had been significant improvements in the welfare of children in various communities, which indicates that the program is achieving its objective in reducing hardship and deprivation.

BURNEY: Well, wait a minute. The reason that the card or the reason that we're told the card was introduced, and that 23,000 people who are currently on the Basics card in the Northern Territory, will be automatically switched over to this card, whether they want it or not. And that's a question. The whole idea was to reduce drinking; to reduce the use of drugs; to reduce gambling, and there was something about pornography as well. And the evidence that I have seen is that it has little to no effect on all of those issues. And quite frankly, when there are going to be over 30,000 people affected by a government decision, you would want some hard evidence for that. And that just quite really does not exist.

STEFANOVIC: Just before we go. Linda, I want to ask you about claims of price gouging in Indigenous communities.

BURNEY: Yes.

STEFANOVIC: Do you believe that the competition watchdog should be involved?

BURNEY: I do believe that the competition watchdog should be involved. The inquiry, which is the third into the availability of goods in stores in remote Australia was an important one. It did find Peter, that there was no price gouging, but it did reflect that people in those communities are paying about 39% more than people in the cities. If that was in the city, it would be a scandal and the fact that the Closing the Gap targets around health depend on fresh food and the availability of food. I mean, these communities are so remote. And some of them don't even have clean water, and the availability of food and the price of food is around structural issues. And they're the issues that need to be overcome.

STEFANOVIC: Well I was going to say that's the issue, isn't it? You've got these stores in these places that are so remote that it costs so much money for them to be able to get the product out there.

BURNEY: Yes. It costs an enormous amount of money in terms of transport. The stores are small. They rely on a very fixed number of people using those stores. And like you say Peter, you’re absolutely right. They are beyond remote. But let's remind ourselves that many of the social justice circumstances in those communities apart from very expensive food, are just not even imaginable for those that live that is of us that live in the city.

STEFANOVIC: Linda Burney, we're out of time. Appreciate your time this morning. Thanks for joining us.

BURNEY: Thank you so much.

ENDS

LINDA BURNEY

TRANSCRIPT - TUESDAY, 8 DECEMBER 2020