Labor pledges to address socio-economic drivers of Indigenous incarceration

Linda Burney and Senator Patrick Dodson address press conference in Perth - Thursday, 15 April 2021

LINDA BURNEY: Well, good morning everyone, thank you all for being here today, and can I thank my colleagues around me who I will introduce in a moment. I'd like to firstly say that we are very proud and pleased to be here on Wadjuk country and we acknowledge the Wadjuk people and their custodianship of land. My name is Linda Burney and I am the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians and the Shadow Minister for Families and Social Services with me today. I have Senator Patrick Dodson from Western Australia. And I want to spend a moment on Patrick. Patrick was actually part or one of the commissioners 30 years ago of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in custody. So his voice and his authority, his understanding of this is enormously important. I'd like to acknowledge the Attorney General for Western Australia, John Quigley, who is joining us today. And, of course, John has led an enormous push on the age of consent and a whole range of other other areas. I'd like to acknowledge my very old friend of over 40 years, Dennis Eggington, who is the CEO of the Aboriginal Legal Service here in Perth, and also Stephen Johnson- Dawson - Stephen Dawson who I met in Adelaide over a year ago when he was the Minister for Disabilities. And I'm very happy to see Stephen Dawson now as the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs among a number of other things here in Western Australia. All people are going to say something briefly, but my job is really to introduce and acknowledge people. Of course, today is the 30th anniversary of the handing down of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody. What we do know now is that there has been an explosion of First Nations people incarcerated at the time of the royal commission was 14 per cent. It is now 30 per cent. We know that there have been almost 500 deaths in custody since the royal commission, five in the last five weeks and one of them here in Western Australia. Labor is making a very substantial announcement today of over $90 million to address the issue of driving down incarceration, which, of course, is one of the main reasons there are so many First Nations people death in custody. Along with the states and territories will invest in justice reinvestment. There is a wonderful example here at Halls Creek in Western Australia will make it easier and more sustainable through the Aboriginal Legal Services for Families to participate in coronial inquest. And we will institute nationally our real time approach to deaths in custody. And on this, I don't mean just Aboriginal deaths in custody, I mean all deaths in custody. At the moment. There is no responsibility or accountability for that. And in fact, what absolutely outraged me is the two deaths in custody early in March in New South Wales only became known to the public because of a Senate estimates questioning at the New South Wales State Parliament. It is not good enough. I'd like to invite Senator Dodson to speak more deeply about the issues I have raised and to give his perspective on what it is, why it is important for Australia to move on this now.

PATRICK DODSON: Thank you, Linda. And let me also acknowledge the Attorney General and Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, Linda, and my good friend Dennis Egginton. And I must acknowledge John's role in the royal commission back in the in those days when we were looking at what people were being brought into custody for and what happened to them when they actually died in custody. And that was the most sensitive component, I think, of the royal commission and there was good insights in this state. I think at the time with Premier Downing the police union, no doubt John had some influence on this as well. But in getting a commissioner to look at the underlying issues, the legal, social, cultural factors as to why people were, in fact coming into custody, and that was the job and the role that I had. So my role was somewhat different to the other commissioners in the sense that they were inquiring into what happened when someone died in custody. So I spent a lot of time travelling the state, visiting police stations, talking to all sorts of people, taxi drivers, Aboriginal communities, agencies to find out their perspective on why people were coming into custody. And the Aboriginal units also that was set up by the late Robert Riley, chaired the one on this state. And they made a tremendous contribution to helping commissioners understand and the community understand also the challenges that underpin that commission. But today, I want to reinforce what Linda has said, because if you know national leadership on this, and that's the sad part about it, we've got the prime minister prepared to have national cabinet on many things. But this is a matter for national cabinet. The number of deaths that have occurred should be on the national cabinet agenda and the states and territories should be reporting back within a respectable time on the qualitative outcomes of those recommendations and their implementation within their states. And so in the absence of that national leadership and accountability, Labor's announced part of its platform. If we were to be elected at the next election to go towards justice reinvestment and to look at that from the point of view of keeping people out of custody and particularly young people, but also to deal with the broader issues of domestic violence and social disunity with the that occurs and gives rise, not not only those factors, but to look at those underlying factors really and to work with the government and the states. And we'll have a joint partnership, obviously, with the states in the funding of that arrangement. We'll have a unit nationally to make sure that these investment justice reinvestment processes are being driven and work. We'll look at about 30 across Australia and we will work very closely to design those with those with those communities. We'll also look at the need to support the legal services and the families when it comes to coronial inquiries, because at that point where the analysis of the compliance with the standing orders and the duties and obligations of officers in carrying out their task when someone is actually in custody, that you can do some inquiry, you can probe those instances and you can make recommendations, proposals for change. And in that way, we hope to be able to assist the families, but also the governments to find ways that can improve the way officers are better educated to deal with the circumstances the individuals present or don't present when they come into their care. And the third matter will be to look at the real time recording of deaths and that'll go to all deaths so that we're not relying upon newspaper reports as the government currently is on what is happening in in this space. And so that we've allowed, the nation has allowed and previous governments have just as much to blame as the current one. But this current government's been there for a while and we've been told and they've been told clearly that this is this is a crisis at the moment, and it needs to have leadership and action. So we'd be looking towards bringing people together very soon after an election if we were successful at it to again forensically, look at the effectiveness of those recommendations and to look at the positive processes and programs that have worked. So Labor's happy to be making financial commitments. That as Linda said is going to set up to $90 million dollars over over over the forward estimates of all of those things. And we will do other things. And we're not saying that this is a panacea, but this is a good start. And it sends a clear message that future Labor government is committed to working with the community to deal with this appalling custody rights and to do something about it. Thank you very much.

BURNEY: Thanks Patrick. Attorney?

JOHN QUIGLEY: Thank you very much, Minister. Thank you very much.

BURNEY: You promoted me. Shadow Minister.

QUIGLEY: Certainly a technicality, it'll only be a short time I'm sure Linda. I'd like to support the comments of Linda and Patrick and welcome this announcement that they've come here to make this morning. But first of all, I'd like to acknowledge Wadjuk people of the great Noongar nation upon whose lands we stand. And I would like to gently correct the shadow minister on the incarceration rate because she's quoting the whole of Australia figures. We have our own particular shame in Western Australia. We're up to forty eight per cent of our male prisoner state is indigenous, 48 per cent drawn from 2.2 Per cent of our population, something like 56 per cent of our female state is indigenous and about 80 per cent of our juvenile state is indigenous. These are times that historians will write off of that we lived in a period of shame. Now, it's 30 years since the royal commission, as Patrick said, appeared before him. He was a royal commissioner. I was a counsel. It's 30 years, for example, since there was a recommendation to do away with imprisonment for fine default. I'm very proud that the McGowan Labor government did introduce that reform. Had it been earlier the late Ms Du would still be amongst us in the land of the living. A custody notification service I'm very proud that the McGowan Labor government introduced a custody notification service so that every indigenous person who was taken into custody, the arresting officer, is required by law to ring the Aboriginal Legal Service and put the detainee in contact with a lawyer or paralegal immediately had that service been available for seven or eight years ago, Mr Ward would have been part of the land of the living and and not died in the horrible circumstances that he died. But we've got a big reform agenda still to go. As you know, I did at the start of 2019, asked the Council of Australia's attorney generals to put on raising the age of criminal responsibility on the agenda, and they tasked Western Australia with leading that study. The report is in some states who object to the release of that report, I've urged its release to inform the public debate. I know that that's one jurisdiction must have leaked it to the Australian and the conclusions of the report on the front page of The Australian. But regrettably, all of the weighty information from the medicos, from the police and get the support reforms are still hidden from the public. And I think that that is regrettable, very regrettable. Now, what Linda is here today to talk about, of course, is progress in justice reinvestment, because what I've been talking about is end of the cycle reform. What do we do when they have offended? But we've got to get it upstream and we've got to divert as many young people away from the criminal justice system as possible because the young people in the criminal justice system, they graduate into the adult criminal justice system and form part of this horrific imprisonment rate that we've got, and I know that in locally, in the Kimberley, in Halls Creek - Locally in Halls Creek, there was a group started by the shire funded a little bit by the state government, it was modest funding, called Olubud Together, a local group with all 90 per cent indigenous workers init. I think the Shire put in was $56,000. It's been a raging success. And if I could just pause for a moment from that, there's been a 58 percent drop in home burglaries; at thirty five point - thirty three percent drop in in, uh, stealing offences and a 28 per cent drop in car theft. And that's just three figures. That's just three figures. So you can see the huge impact in one in one month, arrests for home burglaries fell from 136 down to 33 thirty three. And this is with modest funding. I'm very proud to say that the McGowan Labor government in its last budget committed one point $1.5 million to bring this program here in the East Kimberley. Now with what's on promise from a federal Labor opposition, an incoming federal Labor government, we can do big things. We've got to do this with the Martu people in Newman. We've got to do it in Roebourne. We've got to actually change change the direction of the way we're dealing with especially young people. We've got to catch them early as Professor Milroy said, the first Aboriginal doctor over here, now a professor and a professor attached to the Telethon Kids Institute, said most of these children that are going into the criminal justice system are burdened with some sort of difficulty, mental difficulty. And taking them and isolating them in the criminal justice system in detention only exacerbate exacerbates that. And then it's all over. They end up in the adult criminal justice system. We were facing 48 per cent custody. So the McGowan Labor government welcomes the announcement. And we hope that we're working with you within 12 months, well within 12 months to bring some of these programs that I pledge that our government and our Minister for Indigenous Affairs will work very closely with you Linda, that we're a government of law reform in this space and we'll promise to keep it going.

BURNEY: Fantastic, Minister.

STEPHEN DAWSON: Thanks very much. Linda, can I begin by saying [acknowledgement in Noongar Wadjuk]. Can I too acknowledge the traditional owners of the land, which we've gathered, the Wadjuk people of the Noongar nation and pay my respects to the elders past, present and emerging. Linda, thank you. And we certainly welcome you here today. And as John said, we welcome this announcement by federal Labor as the new Minister for Aboriginal Affairs in Western Australia, taking over from Ben Wyatt, I've got big shoes to fill. But certainly over the past four years, in the past eight years, I've represented many of the Aboriginal communities in the state, in the parliament. And as Minister for Environment, it was my pleasure to roll out our Aboriginal Ranger program across the state. We've had a focus on getting Aboriginal people jobs right across the state with the rural regional communities. But a crying shame has been pointed out today is that far too many of our young Aboriginal people are being incarcerated. The trial in the Kimberley previously showed that Justice Reinvestment works. And so we're very open to working with you and Pat and Dennis and others and Bill Johnson as the new Minister for Corrective Services with John as attorney general. Collaboratively, we can do together to bring those things down.

Thank you, Minister Dawson. Thank you.

DENNIS EGGINGTON: Well, good morning everyone and I pay my respects to the Whadjuk people. Certainly, the Aboriginal legal service welcomes these announcements this morning. For those who probably don't know, we go cap in hand begging to senior legal teams all over Australia to give them to give their lawyers to us for nothing to be able to help us with our coronial inquests. And Senator Dodson is correct. It's those places where you can get the answers you need. So instead of going cap in hand, we can actually do that ourselves. We know what we need to do. And it's a wonderful initiative. So thank you very much. The Justice Reinvestment, I've watched justice reinvestment, I have a personal interest in Bourke. And to know those children and young people are getting an opportunity that they didn't have before is tremendous. And having that for our communities here in WA I think is a great thing. So just let me finish by saying that, yes, history will record this time. And I think the Attorney was correct, that it is a shame, it's a repugnant stain on this country. And its ability to call itself an egalitarian society, within a modern world, is impossible while incarceration rates continue. And also, I think that the idea of having a link in history, to a terrible past, colonial wars, frontier wars, and things that happened in those days, to have that directly linked to the incarceration rates today is a terrible shame. So I'm really, really excited about the announcements from Labor. Let's hope that our mob get a better deal 30 years on from a Royal Commission that gave us hope that we would have a better future for Australia.

BURNEY: Thank you, everyone. I think it's a very clear the sentiment today and I particularly want to recognize my Western Australian colleagues and friends in their support for what Labor is announcing today, and to very much recognise Patrick, who is an extraordinary man, an important member of our caucus and of course, one of the Royal Commissioners. We've got two people calling in with questions and then we'll go to questions from the people here. Phillipe?

JOURNALIST: [Inaudible]

BURNEY: Yes, of course. So the consolidated real time reporting, will take on board, obviously sensitivities to make sure that families have been notified and give permission, of course. But as Senator Dodson has said, at the moment, it is often by luck and chance that you actually hear about a death in custody. We are saying that there needs to be real, national leadership on this. It's going to require obviously the cooperation and involvement from state and territory agencies. But we see it is as absolutely important that through the Attorney General's department, that there be a capacity for states and territories to report any death in custody. So that we are not relying on chance to find out what's going on, in terms of deaths in custody across the system. So Philippe, I'm not sure if that explains it all. But it would be obviously a collaborative effort with states and territories to make sure that there is national leadership on being clear and transparent and accountable about deaths in custody across the board.

JOURNALIST: [Inaudible]

BURNEY: I'll get Patrick to answer that.

DODSON: We're proposing to set up a national unit that obviously keeps a tab of these things, and to work closely with the states and territories. And you've got to recall also that, whilst there are serious and very heart rendering impacts on the families of the loved ones who died in custody, it also has implications for the prison officers and police officers who might be involved and their trauma situation for them. And we're not unmindful of those factors. And that we have to assist those agencies as much as we assist families to make the reforms necessary, so that we diminish the number of people being taken into custody in the first instance. And then we have to make sure that the services that are required once you're in custody - medical services, and other sorts of services are in fact being delivered. So a monitoring unit of how this works, is critical to the effectiveness of it.

BURNEY: Thank you very much. Are there any questions from those present?

JOURNALIST: Thank you. I don't know if it's been explained about the $90 million for these four years. Is that solely on justice reinvestment initiatives? And is there any backup on the $90 million in terms of other - like housing and stuff like that?

BURNEY: So I'll just answer that. It's $79 million out of the package for justice reinvestment. And that doesn't count the funding that will come in from states and territories, and $13 million for the coronial inquest support through Aboriginal Legal Services. And we expect the real time reporting should be something that's done within existing resources of the Attorney-General's department.

JOURNALIST: How will you make sure that that money hits the ground, instead of being eaten up by middlemen?

BURNEY: Oh, it will not be eaten up by middlemen and it will be in direct negotiations with state and territories who are critical partners in this, I can assure you.

JOURNALIST: Thank you. Can you just explain, you talked about wanting to involve families more in the coronial inquest process? Can you talk about why that's so important for indigenous families?

BURNEY: I might invite any of the other guests and Dennis in particular to talk about that. But Patrick, explained coronial inquest are the inquest that examines the nature of all deaths, whether there's been any system failures - and I'm sure that the Attorney will be able to talk about this as well - and provide recommendations as to make sure that those mistakes are not happening again, and provides answers to the families about what actually happened. And in the case of many First Nations families, there's not the capacity or the resources to be able to participate and be part of the coronial inquest, and get the answers that they need. And this is, this is the motivation behind the funding. Did you want to add to that?

EGGINGTON: Thank you, Linda. I think that's very important, most of the calls we get from our families are about what's going on, what's happened. But unless you actually see the raw emotion of what a death in custody actually means to a family, then you've got no idea of the sadness of these deaths, just like any deaths, particularly deaths that could be prevented. So coupled with answers, I think the families need to be able to tell people what it's like in an impact statement and have the ability to say, this is what happened. And families know the blockages and they know where things have gone wrong and as Linda said it’s a great opportunity to get the answer to those families.

JOURNALIST: I've got a couple of broad questions to out to you. Does Labor support raising the age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 14?

DODSON: Well it's certainly a lively discussion that we have about it. And we're very much in support of the initiatives that have been taken by the Attorney General's debates and the leadership under our Attorney General in this State. And we're supportive of the cautiousness with which this is being approached. But fully understanding that this is an area where I don't think anyone's happy with the age as it exists of 10 years of age, and Labor would back the Attorney Generals and in this process, if they want to raise it to 12, raise it higher, we'd be very supportive of that initiative.

JOURNALIST: And do you support mandatory sentencing?

DODSON: Well, that's probably out of my pay rate. But I'm not a I'm not a fan of mandatory sentencing. I never have been, I think it takes away the capacity of the judiciary to respond in a more constructive and creative way. For instance, we had a magistrate in the Kimberley, who used to promise young toddlers bicycles, if they stayed away from his court. But if they were just if there was mandatory sentencing, he wouldn't have that initiative. So mandatory sentencing is a very important concept that has to be applied very cautiously. Otherwise, you know, why have judges? They are there to make judgments, and weigh the facts and bring about sentencing in accordance with the law but sentencing that there's tempered by, you know, the circumstances as well. But is that initiative taken away from them, it's pretty difficult to do that.

JOURNALIST: Some State and Territory Labor governments have been criticised for things like proposed overhauls to these justice laws that say we'll incarcerate more indigenous young people. What are you doing to pressure your state territory counterparts to meet their closing the gap targets?

DODSON: Well, the government is you know has got a working relationship, I hope, with the peak organizations, and the various state and territory Ministers in this field. The [Closing The Gap] targets are a bit out, like way out, from my perspective. I'd rather see them be a bit more immediate getting results. And of course, I encourage people to seriously look at the urgency component. This is about the lives of people. It's not about us just, you know, committing funds and seeing the stats. This is about people's lives, and the sooner you can redress factors that are causing them grief and harm and sorrow and anger, the better in this space, because we know what that history is.

JOURNALIST: [Inaudible]

DODSON: Well, the inquiry made by counsel at a coronial inquest starts to look at the system itself, as well as the compliance of officers with their duties. And ultimately it becomes a forum where the reforms that are necessary are brought to the attention of government to make those things. I mean, I'm not proposing anything about those coronial inquiries, but the fact that they exist, they're a very, very important component in the criminal justice system, to seek reforms and reform if necessary, of its own system.

BURNEY: If I can just wrap up on this one. It really isn't about Labor federally saying this is the way it has to be. It's up to States and Territories, it's up to communities, to design programs and the way to get to those targets or to meet the sorts of things that we're talking about. Every community is different. And it's called self-determination. And that's what's underpinning all that we've announced today. We're going to have to stop it there.

JOURNALIST: Just one or two more, if possible. Just, what will you do if the states and territories refused to jointly fund some of these community programs that you're hoping to run, how are you going to put that pressure on?

BURNEY: This is a buy in proposal for states and territories. That’s their decision if that's what they decide. But I - and you can hear from the Attorney today and from the Minister who's had to go - there is real enthusiasm here in the West. And I expect the same sort of enthusiasm across all states into because they all want to bring down the rates of incarceration.

JOURNALIST: And just last one for me. Would Labor pressure the States and Territories to fully implement the Royal Commission's 339 recommendations if it wins the next election?

BURNEY: Labor's position in terms of the Royal Commission, what I have said very publicly this week, is I am not interested in a war of words about who's implemented what. I'm interested in outcomes, which is why we've announced three initiatives today that are going to deliver those outcomes. We want to keep, as the Attorney said, as Mr. Eggington said, we want to keep people out of custody, and these initiatives are about that.

ENDS