Closing the Gap targets won't be achieved without additional resources
Linda Burney on ABC Afternoon Briefing - Thursday, 30 July 2020
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Linda Burney, lovely to speak to you.
LINDA BURNEY: You too Patricia.
KARVELAS: Is this strategy as ambitious as you were hoping it would be.
BURNEY: I think it’s very ambitious in some ways. Of course there are some targets that are probably not as ambitious as some people would like. And certainly the target around domestic violence - or the lack of a target around domestic violence - I know is a disappointment to some. But I do know that the Minister and the Coalition of Peak Aboriginal Organisations are going to be working on that. I think there is an issue from some organisations about what’s not there. But you can’t put everything in and I do feel that, and Labor is very committed to the targets as they have been articulated. And importantly Patricia, the way in which they have been arrived at through a partnership between the Government and the peak organisations.
KARVELAS: You’ve talked about the history of failure in Indigenous policy, and I’ve watched, sort-of fanfare and excitement as things are announced, and then no delivery. Or bad delivery. And the same delivery every time. What’s required to make sure this doesn’t keep happening again? What do you need to do to make sure this doesn’t fail?
BURNEY: I think that the point you’ve just make is absolutely the key one. You and I have been around a while and we've seen things come and go. I've been working in Aboriginal affairs for 39 years and I have seen many initiatives. The difference with this one is that it has been done very much in partnership, and there are accountability measures built in. But what is really concerning for me Patricia is that the Prime Minister actually said in his press conference: there will not be buckets of money and we'll look at using the money that is already there. Now what does that mean? It means that there could be the de-funding of some organisations to pay for the targets. But there is absolutely no way in my mind, that some of these targets will ever be reached - particularly things like housing, if there is not additional resources. And part of the key to this is making sure that Aboriginal community-based organisations are properly resourced, so that they can be part of the partnership. And just finally of course Patricia, this is not just about the Federal Government, it's about local government and state government. And there is, in my view, an enormous onus on state governments, particularly with things like incarceration, to completely restructure what they're doing.
KARVELAS: Yeah, I think that's right. And I do think that's an important change here, because we know that state and territory governments have a lot of the, sort of, power over Indigenous Australians as well, when it comes to incarceration. And to not include them was always a bit odd to be honest. Are you disappointed by the 15 per cent target around incarceration rates? Is that too low? Or does it lack ambition?
BURNEY: Well it's better than what was originally being forecast. The target for adults, as you have indicated, is 15 per cent. I think for juveniles it's something like 30 per cent by the year 2031. Now that's a decade. And it means that these targets, like the last ones, go over the course of parliaments - which is very, very important. Going directly to your question Patricia, 15 per cent I think will be a disappointment for some groups. As I've said, Labor is committed to the targets that have been arrived at. But I think 15 per cent is a disappointment for some groups, for sure.
KARVELAS: How about this issue around the age of criminal responsibility. It's the Attorney-Generals' job, at a sort of national federal level. They all met. They sort-of squibbed it really. They kicked the can down the road. The Minister just told me that he doesn't think a 10 year old should be in detention. I imagine that neither do you. Is there a sense of urgency around changing that. It has such an impact of course on Aboriginal children. Would that be a game changer?
BURNEY: I think it would be a game changer. And as you have indicated an enormous number of Aboriginal children are in detention. In fact, Reiby in Campbelltown in Sydney has a 60 per cent Aboriginal population. In some part of the country, particularly in the North, it is 100 per cent, almost, of Aboriginal children in juvenile justice. And the implications for that are just horrendous. So I urge the Attorneys, and I particularly urge the federal Attorney-General, not to kick the can down the road again. And to actually come to terms with the age of criminal responsibility in Australia. When you have a look at like countries across the world, they do not lock-up 10 year olds. But there is also examples Patricia that we've got to be very realistic about, where horrendous crimes have been committed by young people. And somehow or other those two dilemmas need to be dealt with, and I think they can be. And I am disappointed that there wasn't more action earlier in the week. Clearly this is not going to go away.
KARVELAS: Linda Burney thanks so much for joining us.
BURNEY: Thanks Patricia.
ENDS
LINDA BURNEY
TRANSCRIPT - THURSDAY, 30 JULY 2020