Labor to reduce First Nations incarceration through Justice Reinvestment

Linda Burney on 2CC Canberra Drive with Leon Delaney - Thursday, 15 April 2021

LEON DELANEY, HOST: It's 30 years since the Royal Commission into Indigenous deaths in custody handed down its report. And in the 30 years since then, the only change seems to have been for the worse. With about 470 or so further Indigenous deaths in custody since then, and the rate of incarceration for Indigenous Australians has absolutely skyrocketed. And it's kind of hard to understand why. In the light of today's anniversary, the federal Labor party has announced a $170 million plan to reduce Indigenous deaths in custody. Joining me now the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians, Linda Burney. Good afternoon.

LINDA BURNEY: Hi Leon, how are you?

DELANEY: Really well, thanks for joining us today. Obviously this is a significant milestone, but it's not one we can celebrate given that we seem to have gone backwards, don't we?

BURNEY: It is certainly not one we can celebrate and your introduction was absolutely spot-on. The situation of Aboriginal people in custody today is twice as bad as it was at the time of the Royal Commission 30 years ago. And across the country on average there is 30 per cent of all jail populations are Aboriginal. But of course in some states and territories - and I'm in Perth at the moment - it's up around 78 per cent. Just a horrendous outcome.

DELANEY: Is there any kind of explanation for that? Because it's an extraordinary figure and I can't imagine there's any possible way of justifying it by saying that 'oh, they just commit more crimes'. It just doesn't make sense, does it?

BURNEY: It doesn't make sense. And it is not true to say that people commit more crimes. When you have a think about it, there are - and I was at a rally here in Perth today for Aboriginal deaths in custody - and many of the people at that rally were younger than 30. So they wouldn't have even been alive at the time of the Royal Commission. You and I remember it very well. One of the major recommendations out of the Royal Commission just hasn't been implemented. And that was: a custodial sentence has to the last form of application. And I think what's happened is that a lot of Aboriginal people end up in custody for short periods of time. Less than six months. For things like defaulting on fines or offences that there has to be a better way to deal with it.

I know that you've got a background from the Orana region and we're looking at the justice reinvestment program that has been operating out at Bourke in NSW for a number of years now. With some remarkable outcomes. And it is all about - and this is the question - it's all about diverting young people from a life of incarceration into finishing high school, into apprenticeships, into housing, into employment. That sort of thing. And that's what we're really talking about.

DELANEY: What exactly is a justice re-investment program? What does it mean in practical terms?

BURNEY: Well in practical terms, it means different things in different communities. And Labor's commitment today was $79 million from us, and the equivalent amount from states and territories. To implement justice re-investment programs across 30 communities. There's a fantastic program here in the West, in Halls Creek, where the reduction in burglaries is something like 58 per cent, where the reduction in stealing is 38 per cent. And it's done some incredibly sensible things, like free access to the pool, apprenticeships in a small town. 12 apprenticeships, which means an enormous amount. 12 apprenticeships in a place like Halls Creek is an enormous amount. It gives people, gives kids a reason to stay at school. Some money for drug and alcohol. Some money for domestic violence. But not huge amounts of money. It's really about elders and community groups working with the police and the government instrumentalities in that town so that people don't fall through the cracks.

DELANEY: One of the measures involved in your package today is improvements to the coronial inquest process. Because that's a process that has been quite severely criticised as being one that in some instances might help, but in others could actually hurt the people that it's supposed to be serving.

BURNEY: Yes, so what we are talking about there Leon is $13 million to be channelled out through Aboriginal Legal Services to support families who have lost people in custody to be able to participate more fully in the coronial inquest inquiry. Now you are absolutely correct. Think about what a coronial inquest does. It looks at the causes of death, it looks at whether there's been systems failure, it provides answers to what actually happened. And quite often for families they don't know what's happened and that's part of the pain and anguish. But it also makes recommendations to make sure that there is improvement in the systems. Make sure that there is ways in which things can be improved. So we want to make sure that families can fully participate in the coronial inquest process.

DELANEY: 339 recommendations were issued 30 years ago, and of those, only around 200 have been implemented. That leaves well over 100 that have not. It's hard to believe that you go to all of the expense and the trouble of having something like a Royal Commission and then ignore a substantial part of what it has to say.

BURNEY: Well, you know, imagine if all of those recommendations had been fully implements. I don't think we would be having this conversation today. I mean just recently, early in March, a woman, a mum, took her life when she was on remand by hanging herself. And one of the main recommendations of the Royal Commission was the removal of hanging points from cells. Which is important not just for Aboriginal people, it is important for all people that end up incarcerated. Yet we still have in some jurisdictions hanging points in cells. You know, that's another blatant example of how a recommendation has not been fully implemented.

DELANEY: Here in the ACT there's ongoing debate about an allegation that there exists systemic racism in the corrections system here in the ACT. The ACT Minister for Corrections says 'no, no there's no systemic racism and we don't need to have an inquiry'. But right across Australia, do feel that there is still systemic racism in our institutions?

BURNEY: On that specific incident in Canberra, I am familiar with what you're talking about. And I have met with the Minister responsible to talk about what needs to happen in terms of that specific incident. But more broadly I think there is an issue with systemic racism and whether it's within the judicial process, whether it's within the policing elements, whether it's in the corrections elements. It varies. But an example is things like the assumption that if you're Aboriginal and you're having - I don't know, a heart attack or some sort of medical incident - that it's got something to do with drugs and alcohol. Well, you know, that's systemic racism, making that assumption.

DELANEY: Given everything that you've seen and experienced, do you remain hopeful for a better future.

BURNEY: I certainly do. I mean I think that the package that's we've announced today, including real-time reporting of all deaths in custody, not just Aboriginal deaths in custody. Plus the justice reinvestment. Plus the more support for coronial inquest participation. That is a really sensible package of things that goes to reducing the numbers of people in custody. But everyone has a role to play with this. And I know states and territories can participate in a very full way. The situation is intolerable as a nation and it cannot continue. And everyone, every jurisdiction, has a responsibility.

DELANEY: Thanks very much for talking with us today.

BURNEY: Thanks Leon.

ENDS

LINDA BURNEY

TRANSCRIPT - THURSDAY, 15 APRIL 2021